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Post by Queenie on May 18, 2004 19:08:08 GMT -5
Board,,, I am not trying to start WWW III but the attitudes of people up north especially Detroit.
David dated and married outside his race at the height of the Civil Rights Movement. My Girl was a national hit in the middle of 1965, black men were hung if they were found looking at white women, black children were sprayed with hose if they were caught protesting and Martin Luther King was shouting equals right for everyone.
All this is going on, David goes outside his race to date.
Was Detroit open minded to mixed couples or was it because David was an entertainer? What was the fans reaction when they heard David going outside his race to date?
I will not give a history lesson on Black men with money dating outside his race how it affects women of color who were there when men were penniless WE ALL KNOW THE ANSWERS.
However, I will ask:
The white women David date where they known to his fans and peers or where they closet relationship? David entertains them at home.
Family members especially his big brother Jimmy??
How was this perceived at Motown, what was BG reaction??. Did the man go in a coma??
Since temptation toured down south, did the good o’boys know David was courting their women?
How did the tempt brothers take David new love interest?
Majority of Temptations fans were black, how did the black community reacted??
Did any of the other tempts take this journey Eddie, Paul, O and Melvin?
Did David dating white women have an impacted on his solo career?
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molly
Ultimate Ruffness
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Post by molly on May 18, 2004 22:12:17 GMT -5
Phew! That’s a good question QNew. As you know I did not live in Detroit. I lived in New York. The racial climate during that time was not as oppressive in the North as it was in the South. Interracial dating was not looked on favorably by either race. In the entertainment industry it was done. Was it something that was common knowledge? No. Motown created their artist images you can't find a picture of any Motown artist hugged up with person of a different race around this time.unless it is a personal photo. BG worked hard to make his artist personal lives resemble the persona Motown had created for them. Genna claims BG fined Ruffin for bringing her to performances I don't know if that is true or not. I can tell you this Ruffin did not flaunt his relationships in front of his fans. The Temptations fan base was mostly Black. Ruffn had enough sense to keep certain things on the DL. Ruffin had a lot of fans that were women as you can imagine. Being a woman of color yourself you can understand the resentment he would have encountered had his dating white women been public. He did not let me repeat Did Not have any out in the open relationships with white women in the South. Not at that time. When I met Ruffin he was at the height of his career and he was with Tammi Terrell. During this time if he dated outside of his race I don’t know anything about it. I saw Genna around this time like I said I was never introduced to her, and she was referred to as the “woman that had Ruffin’s baby”. I never saw her in Ruffin’s company although I did see her in clubs where Ruffin was. The Temptations was a singing group, but they were also a Business. Dating outside of one’s race publicly at that time was not considered good business, for many reasons. Not only were Black women offended by this so were White Men. BG was in total control of their images so he wasn’t going to risk $$$ because of open interracial dating. I don’t think the Black community ever rejected Ruffin. Because he didn’t date white women exclusively he also dated black women. Ruffin had access to places where few black women went. On the other had he hung out in places where he could never bring a white woman. Eddie also had interracial relationships. I honestly don’t know about O. O was lucky to get any woman of any race. As time passed of course attitudes changed a little so Ruffin and others became more open with it.Ruffin was always aware of the effect his dating outside of his race could have amongst his people. I may one day share a conversation we had about this very thing. Even in 2004 there are people that do not accept interracial dating. I have a friend that to this day holds this against Ruffin. She loved his music but when she found out he dated outside of his race that was it.
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Post by Queenie on May 18, 2004 22:34:52 GMT -5
Yes, Mrs. Molly I want to hear what is David's views dating outside the race.
One word the women who were made hide in the closet Pitiful...
Mrs. Molly when David was at the club performing why was Genna at the club working???
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molly
Ultimate Ruffness
Posts: 7,446
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Post by molly on May 18, 2004 22:37:29 GMT -5
Yes, Mrs. Molly I want to hear what is David's views dating outside the race. One word the women who were made hide in the closet Pitiful... Mrs. Molly when David was at the club performing why was Genna at the club working??? She was clubbing or some might call it stalking. She was just there. |
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Post by Joy on May 19, 2004 7:28:25 GMT -5
She was clubbing or some might call it stalking. She was just there. 
As for genna that is TRULY SAD. 
I guess clubs, bars, airport, his homes, you name it she was there. hmmmm
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Common
Ultimate Ruffness
You Got To Feel It!
Posts: 7,442
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Post by Common on May 19, 2004 10:26:08 GMT -5
Molly, it's interesting that you talked about how BG worked hard to maintain his stars' image, in particular their personaly relationships. Marvin Gaye had said in his book that BG was a horny guy who 'married' black women but ran around with white women. I find it ironic that he would or higher ups were paranoid about their stars having interracial relationships while they, in particular BG, indulged in it(remember the Diana Ross/Chris Clark incident?). And he was just as much in the spotlight as they were. Matter of fact, one of BG's children is biracial, so again, I find that kind of hyprocritical on his part.
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molly
Ultimate Ruffness
Posts: 7,446
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Post by molly on May 19, 2004 10:59:17 GMT -5
Molly, it's interesting that you talked about how BG worked hard to maintain his stars' image, in particular their personaly relationships. Marvin Gaye had said in his book that BG was a horny guy who 'married' black women but ran around with white women. I find it ironic that he would or higher ups were paranoid about their stars having interracial relationships while they, in particular BG, indulged in it(remember the Diana Ross/Chris Clark incident?). And he was just as much in the spotlight as they were. Matter of fact, one of BG's children is biracial, so again, I find that kind of hyprocritical on his part. I don't think BG cared about his artist having interracial affairs. He did not want it made public. As you know a lot of things done in the dark have been bought to light in later years. But back in the day not any of this was public knowledge. Just like the numerous artist with drug and or mental problems. This was not public knowledge back in the day. I think BG's decisions were based on Motown's bottom line not nessasarily his personal preferences. |
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Post by Joda on May 19, 2004 11:59:02 GMT -5
Phew! That’s a good question QNew. As you know I did not live in Detroit. I lived in New York. The racial climate during that time was not as oppressive in the North as it was in the South. Interracial dating was not looked on favorably by either race. In the entertainment industry it was done. Was it something that was common knowledge? No. Motown created their artist images you can't find a picture of any Motown artist hugged up with person of a different race around this time.unless it is a personal photo. BG worked hard to make his artist personal lives resemble the persona Motown had created for them. Genna claims BG fined Ruffin for bringing her to performances I don't know if that is true or not. I can tell you this Ruffin did not flaunt his relationships in front of his fans. The Temptations fan base was mostly Black. Ruffn had enough sense to keep certain things on the DL. Ruffin had a lot of fans that were women as you can imagine. Being a woman of color yourself you can understand the resentment he would have encountered had his dating white women been public. He did not let me repeat Did Not have any out in the open relationships with white women in the South. Not at that time. When I met Ruffin he was at the height of his career and he was with Tammi Terrell. During this time if he dated outside of his race I don’t know anything about it. I saw Genna around this time like I said I was never introduced to her, and she was referred to as the “woman that had Ruffin’s baby”. I never saw her in Ruffin’s company although I did see her in clubs where Ruffin was. The Temptations was a singing group, but they were also a Business. Dating outside of one’s race publicly at that time was not considered good business, for many reasons. Not only were Black women offended by this so were White Men. BG was in total control of their images so he wasn’t going to risk $$$ because of open interracial dating. I don’t think the Black community ever rejected Ruffin. Because he didn’t date white women exclusively he also dated black women. Ruffin had access to places where few black women went. On the other had he hung out in places where he could never bring a white woman. Eddie also had interracial relationships. I honestly don’t know about O. O was lucky to get any woman of any race. As time passed of course attitudes changed a little so Ruffin and others became more open with it.Ruffin was always aware of the effect his dating outside of his race could have amongst his people. I may one day share a conversation we had about this very thing. Even in 2004 there are people that do not accept interracial dating. I have a friend that to this day holds this against Ruffin. She loved his music but when she found out he dated outside of his race that was it. For the record Molly, David and I have been in clubs, restaurants, airports, anywhere a couple of the same race would go. North and South. The only time I ever had trouble was in the North in a club, where black women cornered me in a bathroom. David heard it and stopped it...NEVER did we have anything happen in the South. I have a question though. When white people were told they had to accept black people, and that began to happen, did you and other black women not think that the acceptance would lead to interracial dating acceptance? This happened with black men and white women as well as white men and black women. In fact how do you feel about the black men, asian women dating, etc? Personally, I did not come from racist parents, and I never had the problem accepting black as equal. The only thing my Mother ever told me when I was a young girl was, "Black people can't help being black anymore than we can help being white." To me, that put us on equal footing...I have never had problem with black women and white men. Why is it such a problem for black women to see black men with white women?Not all black men like white women, and not all black women like white men. Don't think it is going to be a major deal in the future either...I have mixed grandchildren and I love them with all my heart. There is no respecter of persons in my family...If you have no where to go and all your life to get there, that might pose a problem, but not race... |
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Post by Joy on May 19, 2004 12:24:05 GMT -5
As you can see BEES, QNDF the one that has her own room, started this thread that is attempting to lead to DRAMA! Again from me QNDF go to your room, and keep your auntie and mama there too.  ! You know what I am talking about.
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Post by Jasmine on May 19, 2004 12:31:37 GMT -5
White women have this attitude that while they 'love' black men, they are totally dislike black women. White women have been put on a pedestal as the epitome of beauty & desire while black women are always constantly stereotype as mammies & sluts. Basically, white women have been told that are better then everybody else & they fall for it everytime. And it's not just 'black women' who have a problem with interracial dating, white men & women do too. So don't put this all on the 'black woman'. And it's absurd to have to have force another human being to 'acknowledge' the humanity of another simply by the color of their skin. White people shouldn't have had to 'accept' black people. That sounds racist within itself! Who died & gave white people the authority as to who should be accepted? Your post sounds like a bunch of bullshit to me!
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Post by Joy on May 19, 2004 12:37:50 GMT -5
White women have this attitude that while they 'love' black men, they are totally dislike black women. White women have been put on a pedestal as the epitome of beauty & desire while black women are always constantly stereotype as mammies & sluts. Basically, white women have been told that are better then everybody else & they fall for it everytime. And it's not just 'black women' who have a problem with interracial dating, white men & women do too. So don't put this all on the 'black woman'. And it's absurd to have to have force another human being to 'acknowledge' the humanity of another simply by the color of their skin. White people shouldn't have had to 'accept' black people. That sounds racist within itself! Who died & gave white people the authority as to who should be accepted? Your post sounds like a bunch of bullshit to me!  |
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Common
Ultimate Ruffness
You Got To Feel It!
Posts: 7,442
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Post by Common on May 19, 2004 12:59:56 GMT -5
I don't think BG cared about his artist having interracial affairs. He did not want it made public. As you know a lot of things done in the dark have been bought to light in later years. But back in the day not any of this was public knowledge. Just like the numerous artist with drug and or mental problems. This was not public knowledge back in the day. I think BG's decisions were based on Motown's bottom line not nessasarily his personal preferences. Yeah, I do recall you saying that things that are more public knowledge now was kept on the DL then. But wasn't there a rumor back then that David did/was dating Dean Martin's daughter? Jasmine: Whoa, chile! ;D ;D ;D Tell us all how you really feel!! ;D ;D ;D Joy: is all I can do! I can see this is going to go someplace else. |
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molly
Ultimate Ruffness
Posts: 7,446
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Post by molly on May 19, 2004 13:12:44 GMT -5
I am going to try to answer Morning's post point by point. First of all every post leads back to you and David. The question was speaking of a time in the 60's early 70's. You can't speak to that time with David because You were not there during his Motwn years. For the record Molly, David and I have been in clubs, restaurants, airports, anywhere a couple of the same race would go. North and South. The only time I ever had trouble was in the North in a club, where black women cornered me in a bathroom. David heard it and stopped it...NEVER did we have anything happen in the South. If you're trying to tell me interracial dating was "accepted" in the South. Then I will tell you thats a Damn Lie!!!! I lived in the South I know!!!! Feel very fortunate that Ruffin "rescued" you from those two Black women,cause you were getting ready to take one.  If you noticed I DID say things changed a little in the later years. Still it wasn't accepted. It was just tolerated more. I have a question though. When white people were told they had to accept black people, and that began to happen, did you and other black women not think that the acceptance would lead to interracial dating acceptance? This happened with black men and white women as well as white men and black women. In fact how do you feel about the black men, asian women dating, etc? Do you have any idea how Damn Stupid this question is?  First of all the Civil Rights Movement had NOTHING to do with your Precious acceptance! The Civil Rights Movement resulted in Blacks being treated with equality. "did you and other black women not think that the acceptance would lead to interracial dating acceptance? Stupid azz statement again! Black and Whites have been sneaking around with each other since slavery. Civil Rights Movent had absolutely NOTHING to do with Black women accepting white women dating OUR men. I hope you know without asking how I feel about interacial dating. Personally, I did not come from racist parents, and I never had the problem accepting black as equal. The only thing my Mother ever told me when I was a young girl was, "Black people can't help being black anymore than we can help being white." To me, that put us on equal footing. Damn!!!!! You don't know what a racist statement is do you? ? We can't HELP being Black? We can't help it? ? That sounds like compassion rather then equality. Most Black people are PROUD to be Black. My Goodness!!! You know what? Don't ever post to me regarding race and your Mother's patronizing ,racist comments. Because I will curse your Stupid azz out on this board. Now if you don't believe that Try it Jody. Stupid ..I have never had problem with black women and white men. Why is it such a problem for black women to see black men with white women?Not all black men like white women, and not all black women like white men. Don't think it is going to be a major deal in the future either...I have mixed grandchildren and I love them with all my heart. There is no respecter of persons in my family...If you have no where to go and all your life to get there, that might pose a problem, but not race... Maybe you have never had a problem. Maybe that is because you as a white woman like black men. Don't know.Don't care. I do have a problem with the Jungle Fever Attitue of some White Women You happen to be one of those women. Girl you had better leave me the F**k alone. |
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molly
Ultimate Ruffness
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Post by molly on May 19, 2004 13:19:55 GMT -5
White women have this attitude that while they 'love' black men, they are totally dislike black women. White women have been put on a pedestal as the epitome of beauty & desire while black women are always constantly stereotype as mammies & sluts. Basically, white women have been told that are better then everybody else & they fall for it everytime. And it's not just 'black women' who have a problem with interracial dating, white men & women do too. So don't put this all on the 'black woman'. And it's absurd to have to have force another human being to 'acknowledge' the humanity of another simply by the color of their skin. White people shouldn't have had to 'accept' black people. That sounds racist within itself! Who died & gave white people the authority as to who should be accepted? Your post sounds like a bunch of bullshit to me! Her post is a bunch of BS!!!! Lawd!!!! I can't take it!!!!! But you are soooooooo right! |
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TNT
Junior Ruffian
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Post by TNT on May 19, 2004 13:31:51 GMT -5
Morning, you can't begin to understand. Re-read Jasmine's post. It's that and much more. I have to get my thoughts together for this one.
All I can say is that it's a good thing that he did stop it because you would have probably got knocked the F**k OUT :bonk:
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! You know what I am talking about. 
First of all the Civil Rights Movement had NOTHING to do with your Precious acceptance! The Civil Rights Movement resulted in Blacks being treated with equality. "did you and other black women not think that the acceptance would lead to interracial dating acceptance? Stupid azz statement again! Black and Whites have been sneaking around with each other since slavery. Civil Rights Movent had absolutely NOTHING to do with Black women accepting white women dating OUR men. I hope you know without asking how I feel about interacial dating.
